More on Kona's Ute

How much!? Why no internal hub?

Great to see more of these designs. Kona is a brand that is actually available in my local shops (Auckland, NZ) so there is even hope one might make it onto display.

I like the front disk brake. The yuba lacks that, probably because they are targetting a low price point — I guess the front fork is hardly the most unique part of these bikes so upgrading wouldn’t be hard. Not sure where the back brake got to in today’s photo.

The tyres look nice (great to have such a large photo, btw), and google suggests that model will come with reflective sidewalls which would be sweet. Good to see a sensible mudguard designed in. Presumably the back deck happens to serve a similar function.

On the other hand, there is no clear way to put footrests/wideloaders on which limits my interest. I don’t feel representative in that regard, and hope they sell many of the little beauties.

It would be nice to have a photo of it without the pannier bag on there, blocking the rear brake setup and some of the details of the rack.

I’m guessing the “how much” and the “no internal hub” are related. Deore 9spd, 12-34 with a couple of compact gears up front has some pretty good gear range for the unit cost.

I’ve been debating a SUB myself for a while now. I’ve got a pretty large Blue Sky trailer that I use for serious cargo, and for smaller cargo trips some bucket panniers and racks on my trucker. I’m not sure where something like a SUB fits in between those two.

Nice. Those kona forks always look so svelte and sexy - even in longbike form.

I just (five minutes ago) finished up my wife’s xtra. Mine is next. I hope I won’t have wished I waited for a production option by the time these are out and mine are all done ;-)

As long as we are looking at longbikes, here’s one that caught my eye in Holland last month. I can’t link to the exact bike but check out the “Pack Max Duo” at http://www.fietsfabriek.nl/index_eng.htm

Longbikes… purdy cool stuff!

it’s encouraging that utility is becoming a selling point, yes. i do question, though, the decision to forego the pioneering xtracycle rack interface (as adopted by surly with the big dummy), presumably in the name of accommodating fashionable two-niner wheels. i think it’s early enough in the mainstreaming of this concept that departing from the xtracycle model probably hurts more than helps. it won’t encourage development of compatible accessories (such as child seats, alternate bags, worm-gear-driven log splitters, etc) if every longtail bike is its own proprietary universe of measurements.

all things being equal, 622 wheels are weaker than 559. it’s been my experience that even 559s on longtails used hard are seldom strong enough unless the wheels are built to an exceptionally high standard for production bikes. disc brake and 9-speed cassette offsets further weaken the wheels by narrowing the flange spacing. furthermore, the benefits of larger-diameter wheels in plowing over gopher holes and logs and so on better, well, how critical is that with a cargo bike that’s otherwise set up for hauling groceries in town? there’s much the same benefit in going with much smaller rims and balloon tires, like 24” with 2.35” Big Apples to come up to the dimensions of a 26” with 1.5”s, which still fits an xtracycle…

it looks like the trail is off the map, too, with what looks like a 71-degree head angle and modest offset. here’s another kona-based longtail that benefitted from changing to 559s with fat tires from the stock 622 wheels: http://clevercycles.com/?p=89

Todd’s spot on about the tires. The tire IS the suspension. Apparently the Big Dummy can take 24x3.5” tires, and looks sexy doing it.

I understand the concerns on tires, but also think there’s room for an urban commuter that carries a laptop, change of clothes, and lunch. Get the weight off your back, onto the longtail rack, and set a personal best to work.

When considering Bettie 2.0 and what that’ll be, we’ve always thought of commuters instead of cargo — Bettie Lite.

As much as I dig xtracycle, the nylon they use for their bags isn’t ballistic or rainproof (aftermarket opportunity!) and offering interchangeable, waterproof bags of different shapes and sizes is appealing. You also can’t take your xtracycle with you into the office, like you could a quick-release bag.

As a niche, I’m talking specifically about the commuters that are clocking their times each day to work. A longtail that can get them to work quicker seems really appealing, as well as wheels built just for that.

It’s really great to see so many longtails coming out of the woodworks. I have to say I agree with the lack of compatibility with the Xtracycle parts, they may have some room for improvement in fabric but they have set that standard… I wouldn’t mind seeing something different but this particular set-up doesn’t work for how I use a longtail or how I think most people can.
With the Xtracycle you don’t need the fabric to be waterproof… you put whatever kind of carrying device you want (a briefcase, duffle bag, pannier, messenger bag, backpack, garbage bag, grocery bags, toolbox, dry bag, etc..) INTO the Xtracycle.

With a system like the Yuba and the Ute you have to tie, strap, or jerryrig a way to hold these things on. Not very efficient.

I’ve run an Xtracycle with 700s and 26s. I think the 26s are stonger and better for Utility bikes (though the 700 worked alright too).

So overall… keep making bikes like this, the more there are out there the better the design will get, the more minds it will change, and the more fun we’ll all have!

DL, you imply that bigger wheels are faster, when in fact a tiny-wheeled Moulton has the speed record for upright bikes; little wheels accelerate better and produce less aero turbulence at speed. For urban commuting with a laptop, change of clothes, and lunch-type loads, currently I choose a bike with 16” wheels that folds to about the size of 1.5 breadboxes so I needn’t carry any lock. Little wheels suck at riding on soft or irregular surfaces, granted. For that, bigger wheels with fatter tires rule. But as long as we’re talking “ute”, which for most people is consequent with pavement and non-trivial cargo, I can’t see an argument for bigger wheels.

In the years that I had a hilly 9-mile-each-way commute over rough streets with similarly modest load requirements, I was perfectly happy and plenty fast with a “sport touring” bike (Koga Miyata Road Gentleman), 622 32-35mm wheels and a 1972 Carradice saddlebag. I owned several longtails in that period and would never choose them unless I needed to carry at least 40 pounds of stuff, a passenger, etc.—precisely when you want the airy suspension of fat tires on stronger, smaller rims.

All,

See the updated bullets above with more details.

Todd,

I follow and don’t disagree with your points and I wasn’t implying any engineering benefit for wheel size or referring to land speed records, just the demographic of the commuters I see everyday.

They’re riding road bikes with either a backpack, messenger bag, or panniers. As a matter of preference, I’m sold on folders, but not for longer rides. Urban mobility, sure, but not a long-haul commute. Pam will use our Breezer for a mutli-modal commute this week.

Shane,

Do you live in Seattle or in parts where it rains like it rains here or ever had anything fall out of your xtracycle bags? Ortleib is very popular in Seattle for good reason. Sure, bags within bags works, but consider the industrial design of a quick-release bag and it becomes a whole commuting system: on your back, your bike, and under your desk. We bought an xtracycle for Bettie last year and may possibly have bags that were shipped with a lesser grade nylon, but they’re rather “floppy.” Again, as much as we dig xtracycle, there’s certainly room for improvement in their system. I guess the nylon bags shipping now were made to keep costs down.

wow - $799 complete is pretty impressive. i’ll speculate that it would have blown that budget by a mile to do an xtracycle-compatible bike in steel, even without the racks, and that getting the clearances and strength right in cheaper aluminum would be tricky. also US import tariffs favor 700c and larger wheels by 5.5%.

Bike Huggers,

Bravo Kona for making a new “utilitarian commuter bicycle”. I tend to agree with most of your various comments read above. Nonetheless, I believe that the Ute is in a different bicycle category than the one the FreeRadical, the Big Dummy or even the Mundo are. It seems that the Ute is an “improved” commuter bicycle while I believe that the Xtracycle is more like an alternative to a vehicle. Does anyone know how long the Ute wheelbase is? As a reminder I would like to point out some of the things that the Xtracycle bikes or the Mundo do very well: carry things, longloads, bulky loads, heavy stuff and passengers.

As far as the “bags” go I have been using an Xtracycle for eight years and the FreeLoaders are in my opinion a very clever design. Easy to carry groceries, bags of different sizes and shapes, long items, boxes, surfboards, furniture… All of these are not that easy to fit in an Ortlieb bag or pannier! The FreeLoaders are designed to make it easy and friendly for the user to haul the bags and the things they already have. I want to remind users that in order to taking full advantage of the FreeLoaders it’s crucial to really tension them properly(see user’s manual).

ride it to believe, Ben

Ben! Thanks for commenting and great to hear from you. And I agree with you on the Freeloader design — we’ve carried all sorts of cargo with them and for that purpose, they are very versatile. My comment was directed at a commuter use, where you’d want to snug your laptop tight, protect it from the rain, and make sure it was safe. And I’m suggesting a waterproof aftermarket option.

I am digging this bike and shocked at the $800 pricepoint. Big Kona fan- I commute daily on a Jake, with my r/t going from 13 miles now to 20+ when I move shortly. While the move puts me further from work, we’re going to be in a much more pedestrian/bike friendly area. Something like this Ute would really cut down on the car trips to the grocery store, which looks like it’ll be just too far away to walk to/from with loaded bags…

For fast commuting “race-muters” we call them, seems a touring bike with a large rear rack would be better than a messenger bag/backpack and a carbon bikes and 23c tires! This bike might be over-kill for them and it doesn’t seem suited to haul very much. I don’t get it, and neither does Kona, it seems.

I know Kipchoge is dissapointed that Kona did not borrow Xtracycle’s accessory design. There were several bikes at the NAHBS that also did not use Xtracycle’s bags and some that did. There was also one copy but it was NOT a clone.

Xtracycle sparked the whole idea of carrying big and bulky things. If this bike is just using a pannier, then why the extra long rear rack. The Ute is basically just a large integrated rear rack. A nice feature of an Xtracycle is that the rack is easily replaceable and customizeable.

With the Ute’s long deck that extends out over the rear wheel, I bet riding with an adult (sitting or surfing) would lighten the load on the front wheel if not “pop” it. Pop as in wheelie.

Xtracycles are more versatile but a long rear center makes a bike much more stable and gives the rider more time to react if something jolts the front wheel. I have saved myself several times when the front wheel hits gravel for instance. I would have gone down on a short bike.

This bike should be sold as a commuter, rather than a cargo bike.

Speaking of cargo bikes.

Everyone is invited to the next Cargo Bike Ride. More info here:

http://www.rideyourbike.com/xtracycleride10.html

Now if we can convince Todd (Clever Cycles) to come up and bring his Proto-Type Big Dummy, that would be great!

Great comments Aaron and note that we’ve also got a big dummy on order for Bettie 2.0! woo-hoo. I’m reading a delineation between commuters and cargo haulers and I understand your point, but think about all those commuters that can get that weight off their backs or panniers, not whippy, and onto a long tail — there’s definitely a place for a “grocery getter” or “laptop carrier” with due props to xtracycle.

We should also note that xtracycle and Surly are distributed by the same company that does not distribute Kona. And the Ute’s spec was most likely made out of competitive concerns.

now i see on kona’s site that it’s steel after all! i was thrown by those pillowy welds.

and it has 26” wheels and no rear brake.

it’s aluminum, in spite of what kona’s site and catalog says. 622 wheels and has a rear v-brake that got photoshopped out.

Oddly photoshopped out … I was writing an article for a magazine about Urban Bikes and couldn’t figure out how the bike stopped from the rear. See more photos of the Ute from Interbike and this closeup

Why no disc in the back to carry cargo? Yes, I wonder that myself. I also don’t understand why long-tail bike designers don’t address stand-over height. It was cool to see a non-skateboard snap deck though (second bike back).

Could this thing take 4 Ortleib bags? What is the sizing of the rack tubes?

Koffee,

We’ll have to wait and see on that — the rack is specific to Kona. May work with other systems, but I’d think not.

The rear brakes are NOT edited out of the photo. Just obscured by the pannier. Click on the image at the top of this page to get the huge version and you can just see the edge of the noodle and the tip of the right arm.

Why no rear disk? Why do so many autos still come with disk front and drum rear brakes? Cost. With an MSRP of just $800, it appears they are working to keep the cost down.

At $800 this sounds almost too good to be true, but the “one bike” lifestyle shoots it down. If it was steel and 26” i’d be sold. How much more might it cost to make a similar bike, but in steel? No criticism intended, just inquiry.

You could make your own SUB with a mtb frame and an Xtracycle for way less than 800.00